Kolya Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Živjo, pošten članek, ki je povedal obe strani zgodbe. Vsekakor ne gre sklepati po načelu iz A sledi C, da bo tudi iz B sledilo C, ko so pa razlike med A in B tako očitne: način uživanja, količina zaužite droge. Niso pa omenili še tega, da fizična oseba, ki prvič začne konzumirat, vzame manjšo količino droge kot pa kasneje, ko je že rekreativec. Lep pozdrav. Quote Link to comment
NupY Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 MAPS' reply to the paper published in Science by George Ricaurte, et. al "Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in Primates After a Common Recreational Dose Regimen of MDMA ('Ecstasy')" Quote Link to comment
Jake Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Kolya, to ni niti slučajno pošten članek, ampak je članek, ki je bil narejen z nekim določenim namenom, in spet eden izmed tistih, katere so kritizirali v new scientistu. Jasnih je predvsem par stvari: -tip je zadeval opice s količinami, ki so popolnoma abnormalne in neprimerljive s količinami, ki se zaužijejo na partijih, -ali se izsledki lahko prenašajo na ljudi tudi še ni čisto jasno (če se prenašajo izsledki recimo delovanja paracetamola na povišano telesno temp., še niti slučajno ni nujno, da lahko tako nekritično prenašamo tudi izsledke, ki se nanašajo na neke procese v možganih), -in še in še bi se dalo povedati. Quote Link to comment
Jake Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 PA dajmo še copy paste: Quote:: Dear Science Editors, Ricaurte and colleagues report dopamine neurotoxicity in primates injected repeatedly with MDMA (1). Since human MDMA users very rarely die from MDMA use (2, 3), the high mortality in Ricaurte's primates suggests they failed to administer a "common recreational dose regimen," further calling into question their interspecies scaling model (4, 5, 6). Ricaurte previously reported subcutaneous injection in squirrel monkeys was twice as neurotoxic as oral administration (7), yet now claims oral administration offers "little or no" neuroprotection. Ricaurte and colleagues nonetheless suggest that even one night's recreational use of MDMA may result in dopamine toxicity and increased risk of Parkinson's Disease. Curiously, they fail to cite studies finding normal dopamine (but reduced serotonin) levels, in heavy MDMA users. Two reports used in vivo imaging to estimate brain dopamine transporter levels (8, 9); another conducted postmortem analysis of an individual (10). Furthermore, previous studies in heavy MDMA users conducted by Drs. Ricaurte and McCann failed to find reduced dopamine metabolites in cerebrospinal fluid (11, 12, 13). The dopamine changes produced by MDMA in this study have long been known as potential effects of d-amphetamine and d-methamphetamine, two prescription drugs that have been available for over eighty years (14). There is no credible evidence linking these drugs or the monoaminergic changes they can produce in animals (and, perhaps, humans) to Parkinson's Disease, nor is there any evidence of increased incidence of early-onset Parkinson's (15). We hope the theoretical risks suggested by this study are not inappropriately generalized to clinical MDMA research, which has been conducted without evidence of toxicity (including no detectable changes in serotonin transporter or memory) (4, 16, 17). Michael Mithoefer MD Lisa Jerome PhD Richard Doblin PhD Quote Link to comment
Kolya Posted October 10, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Živjo, evo pa so ga dobili, da celo spreminja lastna stališča. Ah, dr. Ricuarte ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Lp. Quote Link to comment
mato Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Quote:: Cenjeni doktor je namreč znova ubrizgal opice z konjsko dozo MDMAja in 'dokazal' da obstaja povezava med to parkinsonovo boleznijo in to drogo. Vzrok za parkinsonovo boleznijo kolkr jest vem še vedno ni poznan. Eff. parkinsonpve bolezni pa so poškodbe dopaminskih nevronov v sivi substanci možganov. In MDMA ne prizadane dopaminskih nevronov nikjer v možganih. 'Frka' je bla okrog nevrotoksičnosti serotoninskih nevronov v 'osrednjem delu' možgan. Dopaminske nevrone pa poškoduje MPTP. In tud v zvezi z to drogo ostaja 'parkinson mit' v povezavi z MDMA (iz ZDA 1985). Ker sta ble ti dve drogi istočasno popularne v ameriških medijih in so predvajal takratne video posnetke žrtev MPTP z segmenti info. o ekstaziju. Zgodba se pa začne leta 1983 ko so si i.v. drug users v ZDA misleč, da se šopajo z China White (oblika heroina)'pomotoma' šopali z MPTP (MPTP se je prodajal kot China White). In pri njih (pri uporabnikih i.v. MPTP) se je pojavila resna - huda oblika parkinsonu podobnih sindromov. VIR: Ectasy The Complite Guide by Julie Holland 2001 Članka od Ricaurtre-ja pa si še nism prebral /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ga grem zdele... LP Quote Link to comment
mato Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Tale g. Ricaurte je naredu ogromno za napredek MDMA in to samo dokazuje, da je ekstazi CAR vseh drog /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif Po tolkih letih raziskav jim še ni uspel dokazat nevrotoksičnosti /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif niti drugih šokantnih stvari, ki bi upravičile politično klasifikacijo MDMA v 1 skupino prepovedanih substanc. In pol se spomnejo, da bi pa ufural Parkinsona... In to bi radi spet dokazal prek živali ko se je pa že tolk poprej to izkazal za zelo nerelavantno pravzaprav za nesmiselno. Pri ljudeh do sedaj niso dokazal, da bi MDMA povzročal okvare DA nevronov niti še niso dokazal za 5-HT nevrone. Ricaurtre je očitno še edino orožje USA zgrešene politike pri WoD oz. pri war on MDMA. In pravzaprav USA delajo s tem v dobro /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif ker se blamirajo... in še enkrat ne morajo kljub ogromnim finančnim sredstvom dokazat nič!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif EKSTAZI JE CAR /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif Quote Link to comment
mato Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Iz www.Bluelight: Since there have been many duplicate articles posted already, I'm only going to pull out certain parts from yet another article which can be found here quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brain scans on the living animals showed massive destruction of the dopamine terminals, the wires that carry the chemical from cell to cell. In Parkinson's disease, the cell itself dies, which did not occur in these animals. color> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The injectable doses Ricaurte used, she said, were five times the dose of what people might use at an all-night party, or rave. color> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "She," in the above quote is Dr. Nora Volkow, medical director of the Brookhaven National Laboratory. The push is to be granted approval for human testing as in: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last year, the Food and Drug Administration approved a study to use two tablets of Ecstasy over a three-week period, along with psychotherapy, in people with post-traumatic stress disorder. Those studies, which will take place at the Medical University of South Carolina, are set to begin soon. color> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This article which was published in my local newspaper today was a little more well-rounded in its attempt to show that extrapolation of animal research to humans is insignificant. Pa še debata, ki je o tem članku potekala na Bluelight forumu /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif LP Quote Link to comment
mato Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Pa še to iz Bluelight-a: The NYU psychiatrist said "there is a lot of politics involved" in Ricaurte's study because the government does not want to allow medical research with Ecstasy, even though it has been approved for study by the Food and Drug Administration. color> To je res že smešno!!! Ekstazi se množično komercialno fura v EU že od približno leta 1987 v ZDA od 1980 (v ožjih krogih seveda že prej). Zlata doba ekstazija je ble v ZDA od 1977 do 1985 ko je bil še legalen! Patentiral so ga 1914. 1953 je z njim eksperimentirala USA army. V 60. in 70. letih je z njim eksperimentiral Shulgin. 1985 pa so ga prepovedal in označil kot substanco brez medicinske vrednosti. Na svetovni komercialni sceni je že približno 25 let color> Pa jim še ni uspelo upravičit uvrstitve v 1 skupino prepovedanih drog! Quote Link to comment
minka Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 a kdo ve kok je en funt? da vidmo kakšne doze so dajal bogim opičkam. zanima me tudi od kje so dobili podatek koliko je povprečna doza MDMA, ki ga raver zaužije. morda iz kakšne raziskave?! in kako v bistvu vejo kok MDMA človek zaužije, če niti slučajno ne vejo kok MDMAja ma ena tabletka? Quote Link to comment
Jake Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 1 pound = 0.4536 kg Quote Link to comment
mato Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Weight Conversion Tables Quote: In the study, the animals were given six milligrams for every 2.2 pounds of their weight. One of five monkeys and one of five baboons used in the study died shortly after receiving the shots. 2'2 pounds = 1kg 6mg/kg = za 70 kg človeka 420mg MDMA (približno 5 tbl ekstazija) Sam so jim injiciral color> na 3h. V 9ih urah 420mg MDMA Quote: The animals were given three doses of the drug at 3-hour intervals, in an amount and time frame designed to simulate what often goes on at "raves"--all-night dance parties where Ecstasy use is pervasive. Če je pa tko pol je še huje: ZA opice (npr. 20kg) 360mg MDMA v 9ih urah ZA človeka (70kg) 1260mg MDMA v 9ih urah i.v (približno 13 tbl ectasija) Oralno se ga približno 50% izgubi pri metabolizmu -se pravi bi laho pomnožili z 2. Če lahko tako posplošimo pomeni to 26 tablet ectasija per os v 9ih urah za 70kg človeka. LP Quote Link to comment
Igor Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Quote: Se pravi v 9-ih urah 420 mg injiciranega MDMA (približno 5 tbl ekstazija) Po možnosti živalim brez razvite tolerance Res lepe simulirane okoliščine. LP Quote Link to comment
KruH Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Američani so pa res carji. Posebej kadar pride do kakšnih politično angažiranih raziskav ... Znal bi res vsega boga dokazat. Quote Link to comment
mato Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Erowid LINK Tukaj je navedena doza 2mg/kg 3x v razmaku 3ur... Quote:: Ricaurte's team injected 5 squirrel monkeys and 5 baboons with 2mg per kilogram of MDMA (subcutaneously and intramuscularly, respectively) with the intended regimen consisting of 3 separate doses each spread 3 hours apart. Quote Link to comment
Liet Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Največja smejurija je pa to da se je samo 5 tednov po objavi Ricarteovih podatkov, pojavila raziskava ki kaže da bi MDMA lahko blagodejno vplivala na parkinsonovo bolezen New Scientist : Ecstasy has dramatic effect on Parkinson's symptoms Ecstasy is being hailed as the key to better treatments for the Parkinson's disease, marking a complete turnaround from a few weeks ago when ecstasy was condemned for causing the disease. New animal studies have confirmed anecdotal reports that ecstasy can dramatically curb the uncontrollable arm and leg movements that plague so many people with Parkinson's. But the finding may be of little immediate help to sufferers. The researchers are not calling for patients to be given legal supplies of ecstasy (MDMA). Instead, they want to look for related drugs with the same beneficial effects. And patients are being warned against trying MDMA for themselves. "It's impure, illegal and dangerous," says Robert Meadowcroft, policy director of Britain's Parkinson's Disease Society. Others are calling for further animal studies to establish the effective dose, followed by human trials. "People who are suffering should have the right to decide carefully for themselves whether or not to take MDMA," says American drugs policy campaigner Rick Doblin. His organisation, MAPS, recently won approval from the Food and Drug Administration for a human trial of ecstasy for treating post-traumatic stress disorder. Regaining control The latest study was prompted by the experiences of a former stuntman, Tim Lawrence. He made headlines when he claimed in a BBC TV documentary that "E" enabled him to regain control of his body for hours at a time. Parkinson's experts at the University of Manchester decided to test Lawrence's claims. Concerns about the dangers of MDMA ruled out human trials, says team member Jonathan Brotchie, who now runs Manchester-based biotech company Motac. So the researchers turned to marmosets with a form of the disease. Parkinson's is caused by a loss of the dopamine-producing cells in the brain. Symptoms include rigidity and a shuffling gait. Since the late 1960s doctors have treated it with L-dopa, a chemical precursor to dopamine that can "unfreeze" patients. The downside is that patients develop uncontrollable movements after taking L-dopa for a while. Their condition tends to oscillates between flailing limbs while on the drug and immobility off it. To mimic Parkinson's, they gave six marmosets a chemical that kills dopamine neurons. Then, over the next few months, the monkeys had daily doses of L-dopa until they developed the usual side effect of uncontrolled movements. At this point the animals were given MDMA. Dramatic effects The effects were dramatic. Normally, monkeys on L-dopa move their arms and legs around in a repetitive and uncontrolled way virtually all the time. But in the six hours after a dose of MDMA, these movements happened no more than 15 per cent of the time. MDMA somehow reduces the debilitating side effects of L-dopa without blocking its beneficial effects. "The magnitude and quality of the effect took us by surprise," says Brotchie, whose team's findings were unveiled this week at the conference of the Society for Neuroscience in Florida. "It was always possible that Tim's response to ecstasy was unusual." The researchers suspect the finding reflects MDMA's ability to stimulate the release of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain. That might make up for a lack of serotonin caused by taking L-dopa for prolonged periods, says Brotchie. However, there are fears that MDMA can damage serotonin-producing cells. And last month the journal Science published a paper claiming that MDMA can actually cause the type of damage to dopamine cells that can lead to Parkinson's. But the evidence was far from conclusive. Quote Link to comment
Liet Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Ravno danes je v prilogi dela ONA bil intervju z prof. dr. Metko V. Budihno, profesorico farmakologije in raziskovalko. Med drugim je pogovor nanesel na temo poskusov na živalih, in je gospa Budihna kot primer uporabnosti teh študij navedla Ricaurteovo študijo objavljeno septembra 2002 v reviji Science (točno tisto o kateri je bilo govora): Ana Jud (novinar): Društva proti mučenju živali se bojujejo proti vsakršnim poskusom na živalih. Metka V. Budihna: Da. In so potrebna. Toda njihov odnos ni realen. Ravno včeraj smo razpravljali o znanstvenem članku, ki govori o toksičnosti ekstazija na živce. Ekstazi se uporablja v rekreativne namene, najpogosteje na rave partijih, kjer mladina do onemoglosti divja. Ekstazi jemljejo, ker mislijo, da je to varna droga. V članku iz revije Science iz septembra 2002 so ravno s poskusi na živalih, primatih, dveh vrstah majhnih opic, dokazali da je ekstazi zelo nevaren. A.J.: So jim ga dajali? M.V.B.: Skupinam dveh od petih opic so dali podobno količino ekstazija, kot se praviloma zaužijejo na partijih.* A.J.: Kako veste kakšne količine se jemljejo na partijih? M.V.B.: Vemo, kakšne so tabletke. A.J.: Kako veste, koliko MDMA vsebujejo posamezne tabletke? To je vendar relativno. M.V.B. Tabletke ekstazija vsebujejo ponavadi od 75 do 150mg MDMA. Če je človek težak okoli 60kg, pride 1,5 do 2,5mg MDMA na kilogram telesne teže. Izračunali so povprečje in tolikšno količino dali opicam. A.J.: Rezultat? M.V.B.: Opice, ki so zaužile ekstazi, so se obnašale podobno kot ljudje na partijih. Po ena opica iz vsake skupine je umrla, ena od teh verjetno zaradi hipertermije, vročinskega udara.** Takoj so jima preiskali možgane. Druge so žrtvovali nekaj dni ali tednov pozneje. Ugotovili so, da je bilo v možganih tistih opic, ki so dobile ekstazi, od 40 do 60% manj aksonov, živčnih niti. A.J.: To pomeni? M.V.B.: Da uživalce ekstazija mogoče čakajo dolgoročne posledice. Razrastejo se tudi astrociti, zvezdaste podporne celice v možganih, za katere včasih nismo vedeli, da so zelo pomembne. A.J.: Kakšne posledice konkretno bi lahko po teoriji čakale uživalce? M.V.B.: Zaradi zmanjšanja živčnega prenašalca dopamina bi se lahko povečalo število ljudi s parkinsonovo boleznijo***. Zaradi zmanjšanja živčnega prenašalca serotonina bi mogoče ljudje v poznejšem življenskem obdobju laže padli v depresijo. A.J.: Depresija ki se pojavi po zaužitju ekstazija, ponavadi mine v nekaj dneh. M.V.B.: Ker se zmanjša koncentracija nekaterih živčnih prenašalcev v posameznih predelih možganov, je verjetnost. da se bo to prej ali slej pokazalo, večja. Lahko tudi pri tistih, ki so bili samo eno noč izpostavljeni rekreativnim odmerkom ekstazija. Ne moremo vedeti, kaj se bo s temi ljudmi dogajalo čez nekaj deset let.**** * MAPS v svoji izjavi močno dvomi v to informacijo. Ravno tako se zadeva demantira v naslednji izjavi: ** Ja res je... ena od petih opic je umrla po ubrizgavanju odmerka 'primerljivega s tistim ki ga uživajo ljudje na partijih'... A potem je treba sklepat da je smrtnost od MDMA 20%???? Torej ni nobenega razloga za preplah, ker se je v sloveniji v zadnjih dveh letih zaužilo samo 15 tablet MDMA, ker smo imeli samo 3 smrtne žrtve. Poleg tega je pa izjava da so se opice obnašale kot ljudje na partijih nebuloza da ji ni primera... Kaj so pa počele? Densale na tekhaus???? *** Sumljiv zaključek izpeljan iz sumljive študije. Poleg tega glejte moj prejšnji post iz New Scientista. **** Aha... prvo je čez nekaj let, pol čez deset let, zdej pa že več deset let. Torej le vedite: če boste stari 85 let in bili blago sklerotični, to je samo zato ker ste pri 16tih uzeli iks na partiju. Nej še kdo drug kej napiše... Quote Link to comment
mitsumi Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Vprasanje z moje strani pa je, a ma tale revija Ona podobno kot mladina, moznost, pisma avtorju clanka ali intervjuvanemu?! Ker bi blo zelo lepo vidt reply te "raziskovalke" na clanek iz New Scientista, ki te njene trditve popolnoma demantira. Se vecje zadovoljstvo pa bi obcutil ko bi videl kaj porece na raziskavo o tem da XTC dejansko blazi simptome parkinsove bolezni Quote Link to comment
bluu Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Dolgoročno, tut sam bog ne ve !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment
ečičjud Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Quote: je gospa Budihna kot primer uporabnosti teh študij navedla Ricaurteovo študijo objavljeno septembra 2002 v reviji Science Komunizem smo "odpravili", partijska linija pa je ostala ... Quote Link to comment
Jake Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 hehe mah, pač to je realnost, taka študija bo vedno vzeta kot suho zlato in nihče ne bo niti premišljeval o njej. ampak ni bil to ravno moj point. nekako se mi dozdeva, da nevrotoksičnost ekstazija ni bil ravno point tega intervjuja, in da smo zato lahko morda malo milostni. res pa ne vidim razloga, zakaj je šla novinarka tako brskat po tej nevrotoksičnosti, če o tem ni bila dovolj podkovana. Sicer pa kako že pravijo, če bi o stvari o kateri pišem kaj vedel potem ne bi bil novinar. Quote Link to comment
observer Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Prof. dr. Budihna navaja dr. Ricaurtevo študijo objavljeno v reviji Science. Pri tem mi je v oči padlo velikansko odstopanje pri podatkih o dozah MDMA-ja, ki so jih dajali opicam. Dr. Budihna namreč pravi: Tabletke ekstazija vsebujejo ponavadi od 75 do 150mg MDMA. Če je človek težak okoli 60kg, pride 1,5 do 2,5mg MDMA na kilogram telesne teže. Izračunali so povprečje in tolikšno količino dali opicam V Ricaurtevi študiji so navedeni povsem drugačni podatki o dozah, ki so jim bile izpostavljene opice in sicer: In the study, the animals were given six milligrams for every 2.2 pounds of their weight. The animals were given three doses of the drug at 3-hour intervals 2,2 pounds = 1kg, kar pomeni, da so opicam dajali 6mg MDMA/ kg telesne teže. Glede tega "three doses of the drug at 3-hour intervals" ne vem, ali je mišljeno 3 doze na 3 ure, ali skupno 3 doze z razmakom 3 ure med doziranji. Tudi če vzamemo blažjo varianto s skupno tremi dozami to pomeni, da so opice v 9-ih urah dobile 18mg/kg. Koliko bi moral človek požret za takšno dozo? Če vzamemo, da ima tabletka okroglo 100 mg MDMA in oseba 70 kg, to nanese 12,5 tablet. Ni čudno, da so jim opice po vrsti crkavale. Od kod torej različni podatki o dozah, ki so bile uporabljene v raziskavi? Quote Link to comment
Liet Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 ZAJEB!!!!!!! Ecstasy Study Botched, Retracted A researcher who a year ago published startling research showing that the drug commonly known as ecstasy can cause Parkinson's-like brain damage has retracted his study. George Ricaurte, the Johns Hopkins Medical School researcher who performed the research, said his lab did not administer ecstasy, or MDMA, but methamphetamine, to the primates in the study The Sept. 27, 2002 study warned that even one typical recreational dose of MDMA could cause severe brain damage. Scientists around the country applauded the study and warned young people not to experiment with ecstasy. Now Ricaurte says it was a case of mixed up bottles. "We write to retract our report 'Severe dopaminergic neurotoxicity in primates after a common recreational dose regimen of MDMA (Ecstasy)' following our recent discovery that the drug used to treat all but one animal in that report came from a bottle that contained methamphetamine instead of the intended drug MDMA," Ricaurte said in the retraction, to be published in the Sept. 8 issue of Science. Ricaurte's lab requested a batch of methamphetamine and a batch of MDMA from a supplier on the same day soon before the study began. The bottles were mislabeled, the retraction says. The labeling error was discovered after Ricaurte tried repeatedly to duplicate the results he published in the September 2002 study, the retraction said. He could not achieve the same brain damage in the primates in further research, so he became suspicious that something was amiss. He went back and inspected the bottle that originally accompanied the supposed MDMA and found that it was not methamphetamine but MDMA. The supposed bottle of MDMA was already empty, but some frozen monkey brains left over from the study remained. Inspection of them showed evidence of methamphetamine, but no ecstasy. Ricaurte and Johns Hopkins pointed out that while this particular study is not valid, other studies showing the potential for different types of brain damage from MDMA use are still sound. "While it is unfortunate the labeling error occurred, this in no way undermines the results of numerous previous studies performed in multiple laboratories worldwide demonstrating the serotonin neurotoxic potential of recreational doses of MDMA in various animal species, including several primate species," the university said in a statement. But critics say this is evidence that all of Ricaurte's work should be re-evaluated. "This (retraction) shows that Ricaurte is completely overzealous in trying to promote the harmful effects of MDMA, and he has ignored evidence to the contrary," said Rick Doblin, president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies in Saratoga, Florida. Previous human studies had already shown that ecstasy did not lead to Parkinson's, he said. Ricaurte also noted that some recent studies have shown preliminary evidence of Parkinson's-like brain damage as a result of MDMA, but the evidence is not conclusive. "Until the dopamine neurotoxic potential of MDMA in primates can be examined more fully, this possibility remains uncertain," Ricaurte said in the retraction. Even before the retraction, groups who believe his method of administration -- injection -- was not an accurate model for studying the typical MDMA dose, which is most commonly taken orally, criticized Ricaurte's research. Doblin is sponsoring the first FDA-approved clinical trial on the potential therapeutic benefits of MDMA. He said he expects to get final approval for the study in the next two weeks. Because ecstasy creates feelings of euphoria, warmth and empathy, many therapists believe it could have therapeutic uses for people with post-traumatic stress disorder and other psychological problems. Vir: Link Quote Link to comment
mato Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 jao, jao, jao George Ricaurte my ass. Po tolkih letih kolkr se je trudu dokazat 'lukne v možganih' od ubijalske tabletke ectasy Zanimivo res; tolk enga denarja je že šlo, da bi dokazal kolk je ectasy škodljiv pa nobenga dokaza Quote: The Sept. 27, 2002 study warned that even one typical recreational dose of MDMA could cause severe brain damage. Scientists around the country applauded the study and warned young people not to experiment with ecstasy. Now Ricaurte says it was a case of mixed bottles. color> Vrjetn si misl, da folk res misl, da se je šlo za 'case of mixed up bottles' - TIP SE DELA NORCA! Quote: critics say this is evidence that all of Ricaurte's work should be re-evaluated. ... res huda blamaža (goverment pussy Ricaurte) Quote: "This (retraction) shows that Ricaurte is completely overzealous in trying to promote the harmful effects of MDMA, and he has ignored evidence to the contrary," said Rick Doblin, president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies in Saratoga, Florida. Quote: "Until the dopamine neurotoxic potential of MDMA in primates can be examined more fully, this possibility remains uncertain," Ricaurte said in the retraction. :LOOOL: http://www.drogart.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gay.gif Ker argument http://www.drogart.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.drogart.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxthumbs.gif Quote Link to comment
mato Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Bo mogu Matej Sande pa Ata Dekleva knjigice popravt Pa tud Minka in Zor morta nujno tole prebrat, da ne bosta buče učila okrog Mogoč bi blo celo fino, da bi matej in minka tudi mal pokomentirala tole vse skupaj... Quote Link to comment
mato Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Tud na BlueLight se kreše Me prav zanima, če bo tole zvedla tud širša javnost oz. če bojo tole predvajal tud na Mtv, CNN, BBC ipd., osrednja novica - tko kukr so pompozno prikazoval 'luknje v možganih' Ker tolk 'škode' kolkr je naredu tale vladni pametnjakovič Ricaurte je že za javni linč!!! Jest bi mu licenco vzel! Eh, pa smo spet na začetku s tem luknam, ki jih kao povzroča MDMA. IMHO bojo namenil več denarja za to, da bi to dokazal kukr NASA za črne luknje v vesolju O raziskavah: Quote: Rick Doblin, president of MAPS, which funds studies on therapeutic uses of mind-altering drugs and is seeking permission to conduct human tests of MDMA, said even the evidence of serotonin system damage is weak. "The largest and best-controlled study of the effect of MDMA on serotonin showed no long-term effects in former users and minimal to no effects in current users," he said. Quote Link to comment
Liet Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Na evo, sm še v Med & Medijske Novice postal daljši in bolj natančen članek iz Baltimore Sun časopisa (Baltimore je home of the John Hopkins School of Medicine). Quote Link to comment
mato Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Quote: Me prav zanima, če bo tole zvedla tud širša javnost oz. če bojo tole predvajal tud na Mtv, CNN, BBC ipd., Sm optimist ja Upam vsaj, da boste tole objavl v X-press - reviji, ki se jo še kako tiče takle članek. LP Quote Link to comment
mato Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Quote: Dr. Una D. McCann, one of the study's co-authors, said she worries that the false results may mislead other researchers and erode public confidence in drug research. color> "We're very regretful about what it might have done, not only to our scientific colleagues, but to the public at large," she said. Tako opevana Ricaurte in McCann sta se res hudo blamirala... Quote Link to comment
mato Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Scientists admit: we were wrong about 'E' color> Experts who gave a dramatic warning that ecstasy led to brain damage based their study on a huge blunder, reports health editor Jo Revill Sunday September 7, 2003 _The Observer But today, scientists are facing up to the humiliation of admitting that the stark results they reported in the study were not a breakthrough but a terrible, humiliating blunder. color> Quote Link to comment
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